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Jenny Trout is being illegal.

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CONTENT WARNING: MORE DISCUSSION OF THOMAS JEFFERSON/SALLY HEMINGS

Yesterday evening, I started receiving messages on Facebook and Twitter telling me, “Um, here’s a link to Jaid Black’s facebook, and you might want to check it out.” I’m not really the person who handles all the Ellora’s Cave nonsense, though I support authors who have had issues there and believe that Black’s repeated public meltdowns are harming her company, but I thought, whatever, I’ll take a look.

GOD ALMIGHTY.

kevintantrum1 kevintantrum2

 

As you can see, Kevin is angry that I encouraged consumer action with regards to a Sally Hemings/Thomas Jefferson BDSM novel. How could I? How could I possibly get offended–without even reading it!–over something that depicts the repeated rapes of a real-life woman as a consensual relationship with the man who owned her as property, in order to sell shitty novelty BDSM? What kind of monster am I?

Well, not the kind of monster who describes a slave as her owner’s “mistress” and insists that Jefferson and Hemings were in a consensual relationship. As for Sally Hemings’s diary, I’m a little confused. Because, you know, Thomas Jefferson wrote tons of letters in his lifetime to all of his friends and family, and if he was in such a consensual, loving relationship with Hemings, he surely would have written them to her, as well, right? Oh, my mistake. See, it’s generally understood that, as a slave, Sally Hemings would have been illiterate. Therefore, she could not have kept this magical diary that only Kevin knows about it. A quick google search for “Sally Hemings diary” turns up a lot about an opera with those words in the title, while a good search for “Was Sally Hemings illiterate” turns up, you know. People talking about how she was illiterate. How did Kevin miss that in his research?

One of the things I love about Kevin’s screed is the adjectives he uses. “Vengeful.” “DESPICABLE.”

“Big shot.”

kevintantrum3

Kevin seems to think my objection is to BDSM books in general. You’d think the guy whose research uncovered the existence of a never-before discovered Sally Hemings diary would have at least done a little digging–I mean, he was right here on my blog, for Christ’s sake–to figure out what I write.

Other highlights from this screencap:

  • Attorney Kevin Weinberg offers his expert legal advice.
  • I have ergot poisoning (it’s what motivated the Salem witch trials, which Jaid feels is the same force motivating me).
  • You’re all brainwashed and acting according to my orders.

Look, guys. If I’ve effectively brainwashed you, please let me know. I have a lot of shit that needs getting done, and I could really use a mindless army of babbling sycophants to do it for me.

kevintantrum4

Okay, I finally understand why Jaid Black wrote that I “attacked” her. She claims that I accused her of lying about Ellora’s Cave not paying some of their authors, cover artists, etc. The thing is, in order to not accuse Black of lying, I would have to accuse, oh, dozens of authors, some of whom I know personally, of lying. And since I’m not new to the book biz, I know that if a lot of authors and editors and other professionals are saying, “I’m not being paid what I’m owed,” that’s smoke indicating a huge fire. Dorchester, anyone? So no, I’m not going to pledge my undying loyalty to a company or its owner when there are clear indications that something isn’t quite right behind the scenes.

Other highlights:

  • Not liking milk is exactly the same thing as not liking blatant racism.
  • Writing a book about Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings in a consensual relationship isn’t racist.
  • “the more…militant of communities” read: people whose daily lives are affected by the lingering stain of black slavery in America, aka, black people, for some reason don’t want to accept that Jefferson and Hemings were deeply in love.

kevintantrum5

“It’s all still on her blog. She has no shame” Well, no, Kevin. I have no shame. Because I’m not ashamed to say, “Hey, this shit is fucked up and gigantic retailers who sometimes don’t know what’s being given the green light through their independent publishing platform have a right to know what they’re selling.” I’m not ashamed to dispute the expertise of “historians” who romanticize literally everything Thomas Jefferson ever did.

Because I took so many screencaps Kevin and Jaid’s fuckwittery last night, I have this one here that’s out of context with the rest of the thread, but that’s okay, because the points addressed are standalone:

Kevin knows feminism Keving grew up in Brooklyn

I want to make it clear that I do not believe I am a “protector” of women of color. I think white people have a social responsibility to call out racism, because we’re the ones who created it. We’re the ones who kidnapped and sold other human beings. We’re the ones who continued to hold those human beings down out of resentment that we couldn’t continue to abuse, rape, and enslave them. That’s our mess, and it’s absolutely our job to clean it up. And a part of that? Really is protecting women of color from this type of casual violence that my racial group has caused and continues to cause. Does that mean I think I’m Batman? Absolutely not. Does it mean that I think people of color can’t protect or stand up for themselves? Not at all.

Kevin believes that I don’t know the difference between slavery in BDSM and slavery in history. Which is laughable, considering how much time Kevin has spent brutally confusing the two in his defense of the book. Kevin also believes that I don’t realize that women of color read erotica. This is another interesting thing I didn’t know about myself, since I assumed that the women of color who write and enjoy reading BDSM erotica, some of whom have voiced the same objections over this book, were a part of that demographic he just described.

One thing Kevin is right about is that women are smart enough to not buy something they find offensive. They’re even smart enough to take action and complain to an online merchant when they feel that thing is so offensive, it shouldn’t be sold. And that’s what happened, Kevin. Women are smart. They’re just not smart in a way you agree with. That’s your own problem.

Jaid Black wants it to be known that “black women aren’t children, ffs. They need allies, not protectors.” This conversation on Facebook was going on while Black spouted transphobic bullshit on Twitter. Later, she became hostile while engaging with women of color on the subject of Sally Hemings/Thomas Jefferson. I’m not sure Jaid Black knows the definition of “ally,” but in a lot of social justice circles, it’s not unusual for self-professed allies to behave exactly the way Black did yesterday. Her Twitter account has since been deleted, which is probably a good move on her part.

Other features of interest in this screenshot:

  • Kevin has decided that the term “people of color” is eye-roll worthy because he’s never heard it used.
  • I’m a white matron (“matronize” is the rarely used feminine form of “patronize,” so guess who got herself a word-of-the-day calendar!)
  • Kevin has thoughts about feminism that weren’t worth expanding his comment to read.
  • Kevin grew up in Brooklyn.

I’m not a big fan of limp-dick wannabes running around trying to get attention by crying “bully” all the time, and that’s what Kevin here seems to be. Several people contacted me last night to inform me that Kevin here has been all up in Anne Rice’s now-deleted Amazon forum thread, kissing her ass and begging for attention. Apparently, screaming and crying about bullies is also his pastime, as well. He’s so fucking obnoxious, even Stop The GoodReads Bullies fucking hate him.

 

171 Comments

  1. MrGBH
    MrGBH

    Wow. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone miss the point so completely.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • unamadridista
      unamadridista

      That guy Kevin must be from another planet. I argued with him on twitter for over an hour on why it’s wrong to label that relationship as president-mistress, because it lacked consent since SH wasn’t free to either give or withhold consent since she didn’t have freedom; therefore, it’s not a mistress-president situation, but rape situation. Without personal autonomy, one can’t give/withhold consent, and without free consent, it’s rape. Why was it hard for Kevin to get that? Then after he couldn’t argue that point, he moved on to say that in the book it’s consensual and proceeded to tell me what’s in it, and how it’s supernatural, so it’s not real people just their names. I kept telling that idiot that it’s irrelevant how many supernatural elements or how different the characters are from historical counterparts, because when author uses real names, they’re putting it in that context. Why not just change names to John and Sally, or Tom and Sarah, unless the author wants us to make that historical reference? So all of these arguments I and another user on twitter had to repeat multiple times for Kevin to grudgingly acknowledge that the usage of real names and the title itself are wrong since they misrepresent historical relationship, which was rape.

      After he acknowledged that part (this went on for over an hour for it to get through his head), he went on to still defend the author by saying that the person probably didn’t know what the real relationship and only knew the romanticized version of the story. I told him lack of knowledge doesn’t excuse perpetuation of wrong information. He couldn’t say anything back to that, I guess. Also, you don’t have to be a historian to know that a slave can’t consent to sex with owner. The owner will ultimately do whatever he wants to someone whom he considers his property. Kevin apparently had nothing to say to that and finally stopped arguing.

      During that whole near 2 hour exchange, every time he ran out of arguments he would go back and rant how Jenny wasn’t civil enough. What???? I told Kevin that someone who calls Hemings TJ’s ‘mistress’ is not civil as well, and doesn’t deserve civility since none was shown to a victim of slavery and rape when her name was callously used for some story pairing her positively with TJ. He kept insisting that Jenny wasn’t nice to the author, but I kept asking why should anyone be ‘nice’ to someone who romanticized life-long rape by using real names of historical people in her story. Kevin had no answers for that. After arguing with him on twitter last night, I’ve come to realize that brick walls have more critical thinking skills than him. He never addressed half the issues I brought up and kept insisting on kindness and civility when nothing I said and read anyone else say was uncivil. He said he kept getting threatening messages or something, but I didn’t see any. Still, he can’t even defend his own point of view very well. I think he was just arguing with Jenny for attention or something. I got so pissed I took his bait and wasted an hour trying to convince someone who doesn’t want to see reason/logic, maybe because it’s not ‘nice’ enough for him.

      March 12, 2015
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      • JennyTrout
        JennyTrout

        I’d love to see where I threatened him. I didn’t see anyone threaten him in replies where they @’ed me, either. But Jaid Black literally said, “I don’t like you either. See you in Vegas,” which more than one person interpreted as a threat.

        March 12, 2015
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        • unamadridista
          unamadridista

          I’d love to see those too since I saw zero threats in his thread of my conversation with him, but he kept insisting people messaged them to him. I think it was his means of changing the topic, because he kept yapping how someone, whether you, Jenny, or someone else wasn’t “kind” or “civil”, or whatever he wanted them to be. I didn’t get what any of those things had to do with the topic at hand, since the author wasn’t “kind” or “civil” when she used SH and TJ for her atrocious book. It took me and another user an hour just to get Kevin to admit the title and name usage was inappropriate. An hour!!!!

          More importantly, Kevin kept ignoring the whole point of your argument and insisted that being mean to someone was more awful than publishing that piece of trash that diminished and belittled slavery and rape. He even gave me an unsolicited summary of what the book included, missing the point even more. It’s impossible to reason with Kevin, because all he focuses on is that “it’s mean” to call someone out on their BS. How is that mean??? Can someone tell me? It’s ignorant not to call it out. He even implied that I wasn’t “kind” when all did was keep my tweets on topic, not even insulting him once (no matter how much I want to smack some reason into his head).

          March 12, 2015
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        • Jilliann C
          Jilliann C

          Only a moron would take ‘see you in Vegas’ as a threat, but, we are talking about you and your fans.
          I started reading one of your books, but, my eyes started to bleed after the first chapter and I could feel brain cells dying. Thankfully I had just received Joe Hill’s book as a gift and I then recovered. I’m just happy that I didn’t pay for your piece of crap, I got it from the library. I told them they should trash it, but even the trash is too good for it.

          March 12, 2015
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          • Amatyultare
            Amatyultare

            My goodness, what an thoughtful and incisive rebuttal to Jenny’s points! ‘Oh yeah? Well your writing sucks so ha ha ha!’

            As a side note, for someone who is so very judgmental of other people’s writing, you should PERHAPS look into the rules around correct comma usage. Just a suggestion.

            March 12, 2015
          • Candy Apple
            Candy Apple

            Only a moron would take ‘see you in Vegas’ as a threat, but, we are talking about you and your fans.

            So, “See you in Vegas” means “if we happen to bump into each other while both on a trip to Las Vegas, I’m going to be kind and professional in all my dealings with you”? Just curious what that phrase means to you personally, since you claim it’s so innocuous?

            March 13, 2015
          • watergirl
            watergirl

            Do your parents know you are on the internet?

            March 20, 2015
          • khan
            khan

            Why are you putting commas around every instance of the word “but”? If anything can make eyes bleed…
            Do libraries even have Jenny’s books? I’m curious.
            So “see you in Vegas” actually means “I know for a fact that you’re heading over to Vegas and looking forward to meeting you”?

            January 5, 2016
        • ginmar
          ginmar

          A commenter on Amazon told Kevin he was on “thin ice” with his bullshit and he has since told everyone she threatened him.

          What’s especially creepy about all this is that Kevin has or had a huge posse of VERY young girls before he was banned from Wattpad: ten to fourteen. Much like Rice with that book critic, he sends his flying monkeys to do damage.

          So now he’s defending a masterpiece making light of the rape of a fourteen-year-old slave.

          March 13, 2015
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        • Debbie Rice
          Debbie Rice

          *snort* probably the same logic behind that as his logic that it wasn’t rape because they had six children…

          March 16, 2015
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      • Andrea Taylor
        Andrea Taylor

        I honestly think he either is the author or at least close to the author of this book. I can’t imagine what else would have his undies in such a wad over this particular book.

        March 13, 2015
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        • unamadridista
          unamadridista

          @ Andrea,

          I like this theory; sounds about right! It felt as though Kevin’s livelihood was riding on the book’s success or something. He’s really tone-deaf and has no reading comprehension skills. I had to repeat same point multiple times, but he was intent on ignoring half the things I said. Seemed like a delusion individual who argues with people just to get attention.

          March 13, 2015
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        • thegreatestdragon
          thegreatestdragon

          I was thinking the same thing. His defensiveness doesn’t make sense otherwise.

          March 13, 2015
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        • He is neither, he is a sociopathic troll who is just out to cause problems anywhere he can.

          March 14, 2015
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          • Takes one to know one, huh, Rick? Pity you being STGRB’s bulldog troll backfired on you.

            Weinberg has Asperger’s, and as such is easily manipulated both by the owner of STRGB, and Anne Rice, into going off on these crusades. Which isn’t an excuse, but does go some way to explaining his behaviour. (He decided to attack me before Xmas on MD’s behalf because he was told how evil I was.)

            Thing is, you don’t have Asperger’s, yet you’ve done all he’s done and worse. So don’t you start calling him names if you’re not prepared to admit you’re as big a troll and just as sociopathic as he is. And with less excuse.

            Readers of this blog should realise that Carufel not only spent months eagerly lapping up all STGRB’s lies and spreading more, he also tried to solicit hackers to attack STGRB’s targets. And he’s still the same, with the same mentality.

            Stay far away. The enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend here.

            March 15, 2015
          • Ann, no, that’s not an okay thing to say. I have Aspergers and it does not interfere with my ability to be a decent human being. It is not an excuse for his behavior in any way. To say that feeds into negative stereotypes about people on the autism spectrum and I’m honestly really tired of it.

            March 19, 2015
  2. Jo
    Jo

    This guy is missing the point so badly I don’t think he was even aiming for it. This is so awful it’s hilarious.

    I also saw the article they wrote about you on Stop the Good Reads Bullies. It’s interesting (and by interesting I mean blatantly bias ) that they screen-capped the part where you ask people not to read the book but left out the part of “because it’s racist bullshit” of your post.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
  3. W.P.
    W.P.

    “black chicks like erotica too, work well in erotica because many are incredibly hot”

    …WTF?

    March 12, 2015
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    • anon
      anon

      yeah this really bothered me

      March 13, 2015
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    • thegreatestdragon
      thegreatestdragon

      That rubbed me the wrong way. Idk what he thinks ‘working in erotica’ means, but his wording makes me uncomfortable.

      (part of me feels this was one of those ‘black women/prostitutes’ jabs, but I don’t want to jump to conclusions. Either way, what he said was pretty fetishizing and disconcerting.)

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
  4. JD
    JD

    I wonder if this Kevin fellow is the author of that story. He’s clearly passionate about defending it.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
  5. I saw some of this facebook stuff yesterday, and the way he keeps referring to Ms. Hemings as Jefferson’s mistress is gross and disgusting. And I’d love to see this diary he’s referring to. (And based on a quick google, I’m pretty sure a lot of historians would too, because they all seem to think she couldn’t read.)

    And yes, if it was such an egaltarian relationship why didn’t he free her?

    And tiny nit pick, but when he was wrote, in order to explain the context, “…(she’s done Ben Franklin, and a bunch of other presidents…) it’s like, “Dude, you know Ben Franklin was never president, right?”

    I swear it’s like he researched to make sure he got every basic fact wrong as he defended this poor, poor author who will be unfairly punished for writing a racist screed about a real woman who didn’t endure multiple rapes so we could be titillated about it today.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • Suzy
      Suzy

      I caught that nit to pick, too. I’m laying bets that he does not know Franklin was not a President.

      March 12, 2015
      |Reply
  6. Lyn Never
    Lyn Never

    How is it even possible to live so far up your own white supremacist ass that you’ve never heard the phrase “people of color?” That has to be a lie meant to look cool, like being a hipster of racists.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • Lizzie
      Lizzie

      I have to be honest, I feel like the phrase is not that widely used. Maybe it’s because I’m English and it’s not a phrase used in England at all but I’m only aware of it through reading feminist blogs/websites and when I’ve used the term in front of other people I know, they’ve not heard of it before and questioned my use of it.

      April 6, 2015
      |Reply
      • It is quite common in the United States. I don’t use it myself, but I hear it all the time.

        April 6, 2015
        |Reply
  7. How is someone an adult and has never heard “people of color”? It isn’t a term I really use, but it’s all over the place.

    Also, if encouraging boycotts is illegal, there are going to be an awful lot of lawsuits clogging up the courts soon …

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
  8. Brittany
    Brittany

    Uh where is there any information about Jefferson marrying Sally? Pretty sure that never happened. Not to mention, she was 15 when the abuse started and Jefferson, her master, was 45. So not only was she his slave, she was basically a child.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
  9. One more thing:

    I AM SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE GETTING ANGRY BECAUSE SOMEONE DOESN’T LIKE SOMETHING THEY LIKE AND EXPRESSING THAT DISLIKE. IT IS OK TO CRITICIZE SOMETHING SOMEONE “WORKED HARD ON”!!!!!

    Sorry for the caps lock, but I’m tired of this entitled, ridiculous crap. Tired of it. Even Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Shakespeare, you name the famous author had critics and people who hated their work. Get the fuck over it.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
  10. Diana Hickman
    Diana Hickman

    He sounds like a cyberbully targetting people he objects to. He’s a two bit POS that doesn’t deserve anyone’s time of day. Not to mention his historical facts are way out of line with actual history…well said, Jenny…

    March 12, 2015
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    • That’s exactly what he is. He , Maggie Spence, Anne Rice and STGRB are targeting people. This is bullying, threatening, harassment and stalking by this little group. Rice has decided to create an umbrella catch phrase to encompass all these activities as “Responsible Shaming”, but I see it as gang-related cyber-terrorism.

      March 14, 2015
      |Reply
  11. zeee
    zeee

    “He’s so fucking obnoxious, even Stop The GoodReads Bullies fucking hate him.” he’s gonna need medical intervention to get over that sick burn.

    March 12, 2015
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    • Laina
      Laina

      Seriously I just STARED at that sentence. That’s just… wow.

      March 12, 2015
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  12. Sissy Balderdash
    Sissy Balderdash

    Weinberg is an unstable, basement-dwelling reprobate who got kicked off of Wattpad and now doesn’t know what the fuck to do with himself. His MO is shit-stirring. He used to have a big army of minions (teenie girls) who did what he told them to do. Go attack this person, go attack that person. It was sick. He’s big on histrionics, he’ll get all wound up, say a bunch of insane shit and then come back and apologize and wants to be all friends again. You can almost set your watch to it.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • I don’t know much about him. Never heard of him before. But I checked out his FB page and saw he has some of his fiction up there. He is a lousy writer. I wish people would stop propping up the egos of these people. Someone needs to be honest with them, just like the horrid singers who show up on American Idol because so many people told them they could sing.

      I’m sure they all have something they’re good at. Encourage them to do whatever that is and stop telling them they’re good at something they’re lousy at and making us all suffer.

      March 12, 2015
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  13. Rachael
    Rachael

    Kevin Weinberg, more like Kevin WHINEberg.

    Sorry. I wish I had something more interesting and intelligent to contribute.

    March 12, 2015
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    • thegreatestdragon
      thegreatestdragon

      I am legit cackling. That was perfect.

      March 13, 2015
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  14. Diana42
    Diana42

    I love how they dragged Anna Todd into it. Unless I hit my head and dreamed it, there was definitely a post about Jenny not wanting to do After anymore because she liked Anna too much. Such obscene bullying tactics!

    March 12, 2015
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  15. Even the Goodread Bullies hate him? That is precious. That line made my morning.

    It also really irritated me that he kept essentially using the “it’s fiction!” excuse to try and sweep away the racism. He seemed to be convinced that because this novel was part of a series, any rapey undertones were automatically okay because I guess the author didn’t do enough research for each individual story.

    I get that a lot of readers just want to experience an escape in books, I do. “It just fiction” pops up almost everywhere in defense of questionable titles. But I wonder sometimes if there is a percentage of those people who just don’t want to think about what they’re reading/watching/being media-fed too critically because then it doesn’t feel good anymore.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • “He’s a “vampire scientist” trying to create a potion for Werewolf Sally, who is violent and killing people.” And then, after a few lines about how anti-author bullying he is, Kevin, says this: “But there was nothing remotely racist or rape supporting about the story. Not a thing.”

      “Werewolf Sally… is violent and killing people” – !!! What the ever-living — how does this not come across as racist? The black character is the violent werewolf hurting people (and no doubt the book will go on about how she can’t control herself and she’s hurting herself), and the white character is the upstanding vampire dude who has the brains to help the poor werewolf woman. How is this not considered racist or misogynist? It’s practically text-book. I want to weep now.

      March 12, 2015
      |Reply
    • ” I wonder sometimes if there is a percentage of those people who just don’t want to think about what they’re reading/watching/being media-fed too critically because then it doesn’t feel good anymore.”

      I think that’s exactly it. These people don’t understand that it’s possible to be a fan of something and still criticize it at the same time, and seem to think that if you like something even vaguely problematic that must mean you’re a terrible awful horrible person and have to constantly self-flagellate for ever liking it.

      March 12, 2015
      |Reply
  16. Kevin got into it with STGRB last year allegedly over a “friend” of his that was being targeted by them. In true sociopathic narcissitic sycophantic fashion he first kissed their asses, then went at them again, then he started on Anne Rice, kissed her ass, dissed her again, then once he got booted off Wattpad for his behavior flailed about until he decided to kiss up to Rice again and… voila. Even threw his support behind Ellora’s Cave/Tina Engler after trashing them simply because Anne Rice gave them a nod.
    He literally can’t function without someone scratching him behind the ears.

    March 12, 2015
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  17. Raine
    Raine

    So what you’re telling me is a transphobe and a cishet white man (the most entitled of them all) decided they have a say in what p.o.c find offensive? Fuck them so hard.

    I’ve only heard of Kevin when his “fans” attacked anyone who disagreed with him. He’s a vile, self-important piece of shit. As for Jaid Black…well, let’s just say that if trash was compiled into a person, it would be her.

    Do they think we’re as stupid or as ignorant as they are? We aren’t an army of brain-washed children. You saw something problematic and informed us about it so we took action. And the most laughable part was that he thinks you know nothing about BDSM, like are we even talking about the same author here?

    Kevin seems annoyed that nobody’s giving him enough attention for his shitty writing, somebody please call a waambulance because we have a seriously butthurt man here.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
  18. We’re totally certain he has nothing to do with the writer (writers?) of the “Presidents and their Mistresses” books right? Cause how else would he know that the writer “had no idea” about the whole Jefferson/Hemmings story? Its not like this is a secret or it just came out or hasn’t been mentioned in (most) movies/shows/books/comics/essays about him.

    Unless they’re from that Mole Women cult that Kimmy Schmidt was from. I can see the writer(s) being REALLY confused if they were.

    Also not for nothing but for a guy who grew up in Brooklyn he’s awfully blind. How hasn’t he heard “Women of Color” before? What kind of people was he around that he’d make such generalizations? Was he part of a cult? Sheltered underground? In some manner unable to comprehend reality?

    honestly I’m surprised there hasn’t be some sort of religious rhetoric thrown around from the extremists. WhineyBird sounds like he belongs to those groups.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • Cortney
      Cortney

      Actually Kevin is from Staten Island. I am too am from Staten Island. As someone born and raised there I am often embarrassed the stereotypes perpetuated about us. Kevin is not helping to make us look any better.

      March 12, 2015
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      • Cortney
        Cortney

        I meant *I too am from Staten Island.* opps!

        March 12, 2015
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    • ginmar
      ginmar

      He literally lives in his mommy’s basement. He’s approaching thirty but hangs around fourteen-year-old girls. His mom supports him.

      March 13, 2015
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  19. TayciBear
    TayciBear

    This whole exchange made me giggle especially when she used matronizing. Its also amusing that the one black person who agrees is being used like “See, this black perosn doesn’t care so no black people care” which is itself racist.

    March 12, 2015
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  20. Ashley
    Ashley

    The term “people of color” was started during the Civil Rights era (and used by MLK in speeches) to counter the derogatory term “colored people” or “coloreds”. Of course Kevin is a fuckwit and wouldn’t understand that, any more than he would have understood that not only would Sally Hemmings be illiterate, but that it was actually a crime to teach a slave to read/write.

    Jenny, I’m a huge fan of your blog and I absolutely stand behind you and your beautiful ability to call people out on their bullshit. Of course this guy is going to freak out and find every way he can to try and bring you down a few pegs, because you’re right. You’re 100% right, and he’s wrong, and he doesn’t have the ability or intelligence or maturity to be able to admit to that.

    Keep on keeping on, woman. We’re cheering you on!

    March 12, 2015
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  21. Tessany
    Tessany

    Oh boy.
    For this guy to go this far off the deepend, it has to be personal.

    March 12, 2015
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  22. Candy Apple
    Candy Apple

    I…uh…what? Just, what?

    How can a “relationship” with a person that you own ever be consensual? I mean, relationships between professors and adult students are frowned upon because there’s a huge imbalance of power. A master-slave “relationship” goes a million miles beyond that. How can you possibly defend it as a consensual relationship?

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • Treacherous Wendy
      Treacherous Wendy

      *cough* Aztecs *cough*

      March 12, 2015
      |Reply
    • And where did they get the idea that they were married in France? He never freed her. Not during his life. She couldn’t have consented.

      March 12, 2015
      |Reply
      • M
        M

        This was by far the most bizarre part of the exchange to me. I thought until I saw your post that either everyone must have skimmed over it or that I was reading it wrong. It’s such a ridiculous claim on so many levels.

        March 12, 2015
        |Reply
      • Candy Apple
        Candy Apple

        Jefferson didn’t even free his own children that he had with Sally until after his death; it was a provision in his will. If he enslaved his own children during his lifetime, what makes anyone think he would buck the social mores of his day to marry the slave he fathered those children with? JUST, WHAT.

        Hey, Kevin — You don’t get to re-write history to suit your argument, dumbass!

        March 12, 2015
        |Reply
      • Suzy
        Suzy

        I suspect whoever made that argument watched “Jefferson in Paris”…cause if Merchant Ivory made it, it must be true!

        March 12, 2015
        |Reply
  23. Treacherous Wendy
    Treacherous Wendy

    Soooo….I’m not even sure how I ended up here, something I clicked on Facebook maybe? I guess what it boils down to is Who the Fuck is Jenny Trout and why do I care? Personally, fiction is fiction and I believe authors are given liberties to utilize that genre…I have not read the book in question, though I plan on it since I want to know what the big deal is about.
    I have read “racist” books before, banned books, for literature and art projects in college…does this echo The Turner Diaries? Is it something in that stride? I guess I will find out this weekend…

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • foolsage
      foolsage

      If you’re not even sure why you’re here, why are you posting? As to who Jenny Trout is, she’s the author onto whose site you’ve inadvertently stumbled and in whose comments you’ve decided to post unawares.

      As to your belief that fiction is fiction, I think that tautology remains intact, but it’s meaningless; the issue isn’t whether fiction is fiction, but whether it ought to be published on Amazon. Works that treat slavery as a consensual relationship are at best deeply problematic and ought to be considered as such.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
      • Ashley
        Ashley

        Especially since, despite it being “fiction”, we’re discussing the real rape of a real woman. A woman who spent her entire life as property, as subhuman, and now even in death is degraded by sheltered, spoiled assholes who think that the abject misery she spent every day in is somehow sexy.

        People are getting off on the atrocities committed against a real, living, breathing human being.

        March 14, 2015
        |Reply
  24. Mitzy247
    Mitzy247

    And I see he’s still going at it today.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • Ashley
      Ashley

      He’s going to go at it for quite a while, I’m sure. There will be weeks and weeks of him repeating his points, trying to drown out any opposition to what he’s saying.

      March 12, 2015
      |Reply
  25. This makes me think of the blog post I had to write a few weeks ago and share with my author community (I quote you a lot). “Be Careful What Wars You Sign Up For.” Basically it’s about how criticism =/= bullying and that authors need to watch it before they sign on to any movements to limit reviewers. I’m so sick of people crying bullying every time someone has a specific grievance with their work. Crying wolf makes it hard for people who are actually being bullied to get the attention they need.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
  26. Nae
    Nae

    I’m a long time fan, first time commenter, so I just thought I’d warn you that the STGRB post calling you a ‘bully’ has been linked to on Anne Rice’s Facebook page. Expect some incomings.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • Sushi
      Sushi

      Does Anne Rice actually post anything on her Facebook other than ‘bully author’ call-outs? Seems like every time I hear about her nowadays, it’s always some form of ‘watch out, Anne Rice talked about how you turned her shitty book into art/talked about a problematic theme in a book/disagreed with the STGB, be prepared for an oncoming shitstorm” or something.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
  27. Rachael
    Rachael

    So I ended up exchanging a few comments with Kevin Whineberg on Anne Rice’s fb page, and part way through Anne herself interjected to tell me ‘these racial issues are bogus’ >_> I did fuck up a little, and get this book confused with the Stephanie Dray one, but admitted that I got them confused which of course Whineberg jumped on immediately. In response to his and Anne’s comments that ‘there is no racism involved!’ I said “Once again…if black women feel it is degrading, hurtful or distressing, it is not mine, or yours, or any other white person’s place to invalidate those feelings, or say that they aren’t relevant. And once again, she is not attacking anyone by pointing out things that are problematic. People are allowed to write or say whatever they like, but they aren’t free of the consequences of what they write. I know I said this before, but you keep on ignoring it.” and surprise, surprise, neither Whineberg or Anne bothered to respond. Which I take to mean ‘Hey this person actually has a point, so it’s easier just to ignore them.’

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • Artemis
      Artemis

      Based on things in Anne Rice books about slavery and race relations in the south, I’m gonna say she is not really in a position to pass judgement on what is and isn’t racist.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
  28. I feel like I can’t slow blink this enough. If my head tilted any further it would fall off my shoulders. The points are just so far misconstrued and waffled that it doesn’t even resemble an argument and the fact that people are swallowing this garbage. My mind is going to be over boggling while I deal with my strange urge to move to Michigan and do Jenny Trout’s bidding, how strange…

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
  29. Some Hussy
    Some Hussy

    What the fuck?

    I don’t even…

    Wow.

    Yeah turning them into vampires and werewolves “totally invalidates” the historical component. Because nobody has ever used a non-human entity to promote inequality and racial stereotypes and injustices. Never ever.

    I think that’s one of the whitest things I’ve ever read. Only the privileged have the luxury of ignoring historical context.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
  30. Nicolette
    Nicolette

    It’s getting to the point where I see one person crying “author bullies” and I throw up in my mouth a little. I’m so, so tired of someone getting legitimately angry (and explaining in detail why) over another person’s work, and someone else wailing and gnashing their teeth over that. It’s called criticism, assholes. Put on your big girl/boy panties and deal with it.

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
  31. Dame.Folie
    Dame.Folie

    It’s one thing to complain.. it’s another to actively try and take a person’s livelihood and trash it while bringing in cronies to browbeat others along with you.. in this day and age of sheep, a public voice should consider the ramifications of their actions.. behaving like an asshole doesn’t do anyone any good.. you don’t like that they’re talking about you (you must not – hence the reason you’re now here on your blog to write and post all the pictures about it)? then stop being a dick.. write a review AFTER actually reading the book saying “ya know, i thought it sucked.. and here’s why”..

    was rape common back then? sure.. does it mean there couldn’t have been some kind of loving relationship? nope.. were all slaves illiterate like you’re claiming? i doubt it.. most were.. but i’m certain there were SOME that were shown how to read and write.. so.. how about, instead of making blanket statements and just assuming your own superiority (a first person white woman issue i’ve noticed) you actually glean some knowledge into that little noggin..

    you getting things disallowed because you don’t like them is just like nazi book burning because it went against their grand idea of a master race.. you’re no better.. why don’t you have a woman of color read it and give you HER opinion on it?

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • RedHandedJill
      RedHandedJill

      Are you fucking joking with the Nazi comparison right now? I can’t even…

      March 12, 2015
      |Reply
      • Lieke
        Lieke

        This is just so funny to me: ‘Yeah, you should stop being a dick. And now I’m going to compare you to the Nazis.’

        March 13, 2015
        |Reply
    • JennyTrout
      JennyTrout

      “It’s one thing to complain.. it’s another to actively try and take a person’s livelihood and trash it while bringing in cronies to browbeat others along with you.. ”

      You came here from Anne Rice’s page, right?

      March 12, 2015
      |Reply
      • Flora
        Flora

        LOL – the clear mark 🙂

        March 13, 2015
        |Reply
    • Robin
      Robin

      I think what’s most astonishing to me about this comment and so many others like it in similar threads is that people seem to forget that A. freedom of speech goes both ways, and B. boycotting something and urging others to do so is part of free speech. Authors aren’t automatically exempt from criticism, no matter how harsh, just because they put a lot of work into something.

      Also, at this point I have read enough excerpts from the book that HOLY CRAP is this particular work deserving of harsh criticism. Ridiculous allegations of bullying aside, this woman needs an editor *desperately*.

      March 12, 2015
      |Reply
    • ginmar
      ginmar

      Go back to Anne Rice’s fanpoodle page, dear. Or Kevin’s.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
    • Sushi
      Sushi

      “was rape common back then? sure.. does it mean there couldn’t have been some kind of loving relationship? nope..”

      Ew. You’re a terrible person.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
    • Ashley
      Ashley

      Actually, it was a crime to teach a slave to read or write. They were owned as property, and the women were raped on a regular basis by their owners and the overseers, as well as subject to “breeding” with male slaves as their owner’s behest.

      This is historical information, it is fact, and it is widely available. You can use whatever excuses you feel the need to drum up to make it okay to write erotica about a real woman who was really owned and raped, a woman who served her entire life as a piece of property with no rights, autonomy, or free agency, but your excuses only work for you and others willing to ignore that fact.

      Maybe you all can go into business, writing hot and sexy stories about woman who were owned as property. There have been lots of recent cases regarding women who were kidnapped and held captive for years while being continuously raped and beaten… are you getting moist yet?

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
      • This55
        This55

        If he needs to get his historical data from fiction – he could read Kindred by Octavia E. Butler – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindred_%28novel%29 – because everything you just said is true and did happen and it’s sickening. But this sci-fi book doesn’t try to romanticize the facts.

        March 17, 2015
        |Reply
    • khan
      khan

      …what

      “not all slaves therefore you’re ignorant and literally Hitler”

      Congrats, Jen – you know you’ve made it when you get compared to Hitler. It
      happens to people like Obama.

      January 5, 2016
      |Reply
  32. Dame.Folie
    Dame.Folie

    also.. it IS a fiction book right? there might be SOME historical fact to it but it’s still in fiction.. you guys know that right? fiction.. as in false.. as in not real..

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
    • That’s entirely part of the point. “Being fiction” does not negate the fact that this is a story taking the relationship of a white man and a black woman slave where substantial evidence supports the relationship was not consensual and playing up on those very elements for the sake of a fetish. It crosses the line of silly, harmless, fantasy fiction and causes real people actual pain. This is why Jenny is so against it. This book, like Fifty Shades of Grey, is helping to trivialize serious issues further than we already do and hiding behind “it’s just fiction” to try and negate real world consequences.
      It may be fiction, but it exists, and words cause real harm to real people. In my opinion, they’re more important as real people than the fantasies of one woman.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
    • Lieke
      Lieke

      Your flimsy ‘it’s fiction’ argument has already been refuted about a million times on this blog.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
    • thegreatestdragon
      thegreatestdragon

      man, if I wrote a book about Hitler having a bdsm relationship with Anne fucking Frank don’t even try to pretend that you wouldn’t be horrified. And if you wouldn’t, there’s something wrong with you.

      (and before anyone says anything, as someone with a Jewish Grandpa I am deeply ashamed of that comparison and apologize, but hell, these people.)

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
  33. ali
    ali

    ugh, these people sound terrible. jenny, keep being you and i will keep buying your books!

    March 12, 2015
    |Reply
  34. Angie
    Angie

    Your name came up in that deleted Amazon thread a time or three. I’m afraid that’s why you’re getting this shitstorm now. Some people in here were speculating that Kevin is the author of that book, to be defending it so vehemently, and that’s not it; it’s far more pathetic. He found this, and is using it to score points with Anne Rice. That’s it. He is absolutely delighted to have a fake cause to champion against you. He is loving this.

    And as far as I’ve seen, he doesn’t stop. He’ll occasionally seem like he’s getting a clue, but then he’ll be back to batshit exorcist levels of spite.

    I don’t tell people to ignore trolls, usually, because I think it’s important that someone stand up and contradict people who say vile, hateful things, but in this case, I don’t think there’s anything anyone can say to him that hasn’t been said. He won’t listen to reason or logic. He absolutely will not stop, from what I can tell. He’s trying to ride Anne Rice’s coat tails, and he’s not going to let go.

    And Ms. Rice will pretend not to have seen any of the rape apologism or the weight comments. She will continue to pretend he is a decent person with integrity, because as long as he is supporting her, that is the only thing she cares about.

    They deserve each other.

    March 13, 2015
    |Reply
    • ginmar
      ginmar

      He’s like the Terminator…..of stupid. He spreads it:

      “Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.”

      Just substitute “brain dead from his idiocy” there and it’s like Arnold Schwarzennegger, coming to get you, with stupid.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
      • Angie
        Angie

        And I had stopped myself from making the terminator reference, because it seemed too flattering. 🙂

        March 13, 2015
        |Reply
  35. Pennymoonz
    Pennymoonz

    That guy is in an imbecile, and ghis obsession with bullying is unhealthy, he soubds insane, “ill have to punish them”okay fucking psycho ass

    March 13, 2015
    |Reply
  36. If it was such an egalitarian relationship, surely TJ would have mentioned her as his beloved in at least some of the 18,000 letters he wrote, right?

    No. And he didn’t apparently write any to her, either, nor was she known to be literate. And for someone as literate as Jefferson, that would seem to be a showstopper.

    March 13, 2015
    |Reply
    • ginmar
      ginmar

      That’s an extra creepy revelation. He knew exactly what he was doing, and it was NOT something romantic. She was his dead wife’s half sister. She was not his chronological equal, or anything. It’s coldly predatory.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
  37. Dor
    Dor

    I’ve wasted more hours than I care to remember reading Kevin’s charming contributions to the Amazon Forums and other places. He likes to stalk people from one site to another – engage him on Twitter and you may find his army of fangurlz attacking your blog. He’s always struck me as somebody desperate for validation and seeking it in the wrong places.

    For those who justify this book, consider if it would be okay to have Vampire Ariel Castro with his werewolf hareem.

    March 13, 2015
    |Reply
    • Rhiannon
      Rhiannon

      Exactly, or Vampire Josef Fritzl. I think you could also ask Josef Fritzl’s daughter about how having 6 children with someone means that it was a consensual relationship.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
    • khan
      khan

      I was curious. I went and looked at his writing. I regret everything.
      It physically hurts. He’s awful!! D:
      Also no no no no no he does not have fangirls he cannot that violates everything I believe about the world being a good place. Maybe he has a lot of dummy accounts.

      January 5, 2016
      |Reply
  38. Jemmy
    Jemmy

    Sorry to see you’ve been hit with all that BS.

    March 13, 2015
    |Reply
    • Katelyn
      Katelyn

      Yeah, wow. I followed that link and (not being historically savvy) had to look it over a few times for any indication of genre. Failing that, I googled the title; RIGHT IN THE DESCRIPTION OF THE BOOK is an explanation of how this book is a work of fiction and there is no genuine diary.

      Like you said, 2 minutes. It’s hard to believe how excited some people get to talk out of their asses.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
      • Lisa Dollar
        Lisa Dollar

        I’m not historically savvy either, but a big red flag for me was the fact that she kept writing French. The Wikipedia page had the history of how the author was asked to write the diary.

        March 13, 2015
        |Reply
  39. Rachel
    Rachel

    Jenny,

    I have to say, I am a huge fan of yours. I often find your opinions align with mine, and I think you’re a strong voice for people who are often brushed off. However ridiculous this whole thing has gotten, I will admit it makes me feel uncomfortable that you support pirating someone else’s novel. By all means, encourage people to boycott. Encourage your readers to help start a new trend where Rape Culture isn’t sexy. But please, don’t tell them to steal someone else’s work by pirating a novel. That just hurts the whole industry.

    March 13, 2015
    |Reply
    • JennyTrout
      JennyTrout

      I just want to clear up, I didn’t say, “Go pirate this author’s book,” I actively discouraged anyone from reading it. I didn’t want people to buy it out of curiosity, and suggested piracy. I’ve always been pretty clear, I think, on my stance on piracy, and that is that I don’t believe it’s hurting the industry or the arts. We probably disagree on that point. But I do want to make it clear that this was never about “go pirate this author’s books to teach them a lesson,” which Anne Rice has made it out to be.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
  40. Megan
    Megan

    I heard the Anne Rice horde was leaving you one-star reviews on Amazon, which reminds me I need to go leave my five-star reviews! (Seriously, I just read the whole series and loved it).

    March 13, 2015
    |Reply
  41. Dracon Ra
    Dracon Ra

    Wait, so we have people, claiming “It’s just a work of fiction, it doesn’t hurt anyone! Besides, there is historical evidence they where really truly in luve!” And then quote a work of fiction, to proof this?

    Yes, no harm in this little piece of slavery romanticizing fiction..

    March 13, 2015
    |Reply
    • Carrie
      Carrie

      Then don’t read it! Don’t buy it! But don’t use your cloute to get a work of fiction banned. If it is such a terrible book it will fade in its own. By all means write how much you dislike the story line, but to go on a witch hunt to have a book banned is ludicrous. Banning people for disagreeing with your opinion is childish. If you can’t take the heat of the chaos of your own creation, then stop attacking other authors.
      Your attempts to censor other authors in the same genre is sickening. Apparently, competition is not something you can tolerate. The ONLY books you take on are in the same genre you write in. Shady!
      This is your just desserts for attacking someone who was incapable of defending themselves.

      March 13, 2015
      |Reply
      • You know who was really incapable of defending themselves? The innocent woman who was raped by our third president. Taking a real relationship that was historically nonconsensual and portraying it as a consensual one is disgusting. Jenny didn’t ask retailers to delist the book because it ‘disagreed with her opinion’–she informed them that they were selling a product that glorified rape, so that the retailers would be able to choose whether or not to keep carrying it. “Banning” implies she asked a legal authority to make a law prohibiting the sale of this book. Retailers choosing not to carry a disgusting product are acting within their rights.
        And no erotica author would try to decrease the amount of erotica for sale, because erotica fans buy lots of it, so the more offerings, the better people tend to do. I’m guessing she mostly writes about erotica authors because that’s where her professional experience and contacts lie, not because she hates her “competition”
        Also, “just desserts” and “can’t take the heat?” You’re not winning this, troll. You’re really not winning.

        March 13, 2015
        |Reply
      • Diane
        Diane

        What is cloute?

        Just asking.

        March 14, 2015
        |Reply
        • Laina
          Laina

          Isn’t it that website where they track your tweets and you can get weird random samples like spray cleaner and baby lotion?

          March 14, 2015
          |Reply
      • Jo
        Jo

        I don’t understand your argument. “Don’t read it, don’t buy it” it’s exactly what Jenny is advocating for here. She doesn’t have the power to actually ban or censor anything because she’s not THA GOVERMENT, but she does have the right to speak and warn other people against this piece of garbage I hesitate to call a book. Which is what she is doing.

        I really don’t see what’s the big issue for you people who keep coming here (her personal blog, where she is entitled to write about whatever the hell she wants) to call her a bully.

        (As a side note: if Jenny ever wants to become THA GOVERMENT, she has my vote.)

        March 14, 2015
        |Reply
      • Zoriax
        Zoriax

        “Don’t like, don’t read” is not an argument. We have freedom of opinion. However, in order to decide what our opinion is, we have the moral obligation of getting informed about whatever we’ve decided to argue about. Thus, we have to read what we want to review.
        In this case, though, we have, straight from the author’s mouth, a disgusting premise about a BDSM “romance” portraying Sally Hemmings the SLAVE and Thomas Jefferson (who NEVER FREED HER until he died) as “consensual love”. Sure- Then why didn’t he freed her? Oh, right- because that way, she couldn’t say no. So, yeah, we definitely won’t be buying it.

        “Incapable of defending themselves”? Oh, THAT’s rich. Talking about your opinion in a blog and have the people who already come here have a discussion is not an attack. Sending legions of fans to any critic, like Kevin did, IS.

        Also, let me explain to you what Jenny is saying about this book, using the words of thegreatestdragon above: “if I wrote a book about Hitler having a bdsm relationship with Anne f***ing Frank don’t even try to pretend that you wouldn’t be horrified”.

        March 14, 2015
        |Reply
      • khan
        khan

        You do realize that she doesn’t have the power to actually censor them, right?

        January 5, 2016
        |Reply
    • Raging Brainer
      Raging Brainer

      Those people who say that are morons. Jaws was a work of fiction (not even using historical people in it) and we pretty much have hunted the shark almost into extinction. So for people to claim fiction doesn’t affect us in the real world, means they don’t know the real world.

      March 14, 2015
      |Reply
  42. Promise
    Promise

    Wow, this Kevin guy’s behavior certainly points to severe mental illness. The people agreeing with him and defending him and this book are despicable. This book and the shitstorm surrounding it is an example of how ignorance and stupidity perpetuate racism. It is exactly for that reason that it is important that people, like you, Jenny, call for authors to have responsibility and accountability for what they write. Just because free speech entitles you to be able to put it out there doesn’t mean you should. “It’s just fiction” is never a justification for writing something that promotes harm. Anyone who doesn’t understand that is either mentally or morally deficient.

    March 13, 2015
    |Reply
    • Sushi
      Sushi

      Can we not do that thing where we diagnose terrible people with mental illness? Sometimes terrible people are just terrible people.

      March 15, 2015
      |Reply
      • Promise
        Promise

        Sushi, I *did* say EITHER mentally ill OR morally deficient. TBH, I’m going to be more understanding about someone being an asshole if they’re like that because of a mental illness.

        March 16, 2015
        |Reply
        • Promise
          Promise

          I take that back. I didn’t reread my comment and misremembered how I put it.

          The thing is, his behavior is highly indicative of someone who has mental problems, specifically borderline personality disorder. I don’t say things like this lightly. There is a long history of various mental illnesses in my family, and I myself have 4 different diagnoses of mental illness.

          Someone who is normal just doesn’t do the things this guy is doing.

          March 16, 2015
          |Reply
  43. Lisa
    Lisa

    You’re a smart woman with strong opinions, who won’t back down.
    Pretty sure that’s why Kevin really hates you.

    He’s busy being Anne Rice’s fanpoodle, and jumped on your post about the Hemings book as an excuse to attack. Sadly, he’s such a total douche that he failed to see what anyone with half a brain can: that fetishising an actual historical person–a child, at that–who lived in actual slavery is nothing short of disgusting.

    March 14, 2015
    |Reply
    • ginmar
      ginmar

      Seriously, Kevin is the sort of guy who is only tolerable to teenaged girls. I’m not being sarcastic. His only supporters are teen girls. He’s in his late twenties.

      March 14, 2015
      |Reply
      • khan
        khan

        I’d say that’s offensive to teenage girls. Teenage girls have standards. Maybe a thirteen-year-old who happens to be incredibly sheltered and influenceable might be interested.

        January 5, 2016
        |Reply
  44. ginmar
    ginmar

    One of Kevvie’s fangirls, eh? You sound like a fucking parody.

    March 14, 2015
    |Reply
  45. ginmar
    ginmar

    Whineberg uses being Jewish to defend against accusations he’s a gamergator but he’s obsessed with “feminazis” who he says want to “ban videogames.”

    March 14, 2015
    |Reply
    • thegreatestdragon
      thegreatestdragon

      I followed the link. Wow! That really made me think about this differently. It’s pretty harrowing

      March 15, 2015
      |Reply
  46. ginmar
    ginmar

    Yeah, every person I know who suffers from genuine mental illness struggles and fights it. You can’t help it all the time, but you DO try.

    Whineberg plots and carries out his campaigns——only against women, one notices——-a little too carefully to be ill. He quite deliberately takes steps to try and cover his tracks. I’ve met too many Aspies who were genuinely concerned they might miss social cues or something to buy this scumbag’s act. It’s like that (maybe) asshole who says something offensive. After you tell him, does he go, “Oh, shit, man, I’m sorry! I wasn’t thinking. Sorry about that!” Or does he go, “You just have no sense of humor, not my problem you can’t appreciate my super edgey sense of humor.” Yeah, Whineberg is the latter type.

    March 15, 2015
    |Reply
    • Promise
      Promise

      That might be true of everyone you know who has a mental illness, but, unfortunately, it’s not true of everyone who has one. Many refuse to acknowledge they even have a problem, for various reasons. Others know they have a problem, but expect the world to change to their needs rather than seek help.

      Additionally, people on the Autism spectrum are not mentally ill. Please don’t conflate the two.

      Finally, I agree that this Kevin guy is a major asshole, but just because he does things that are calculated, etc., does not preclude mental illness. Someone can be extremely clever/intelligent and still be mentally ill.

      March 16, 2015
      |Reply
      • Laina
        Laina

        That kind of thing can create a lot of stigma (i.e. all violent people are mentally ill, therefore all mentally ill people are violent) and it’s a good life choice to refrain from armchair diagnosing.

        March 16, 2015
        |Reply
  47. Grimlock
    Grimlock

    Black is wrong. Jefferson didn’t go to France to marry Hemings. In fact, she wasn’t even one of the original slaves that he brought along.

    “Around the time that he returned to Paris, Jefferson was reunited with his ten- year old daughter Polly, who had been brought to Europe via London in the care of a teenage slave named Sally Hemings. ”

    Hemings wasn’t brought because Jefferson loved her so much, or felt romantic towards her. In fact, he fell hard for someone else during one of his times in France.

    “Whether consummated or not, it is clear that while in Paris Jefferson developed a romantic attachment to Maria Cosway, a young English painter raised in Italy, and fully possessed of the characteristic Mediterranean charms. ”

    She was married – unhappily, but committed to her marriage. Jefferson is described as broken hearted over her. And even then? He doesn’t bring Hemings over to console him.

    When the slaves finally learned they could petition for freedom in France, they did. Hell, the only reason he didn’t lose Sally seems to be this:

    “After some hard convincing, Jefferson was able to avert the loss of two of his finest slaves, and the Hemings siblings returned to Monticello with him. Many have speculated that this was accomplished by means of a bargain involving the eventual emancipation of various members of the Hemings family.”

    She apparently loved her so much that, to all appearances, the only reason she chose to stay a slave with him is that he /used her family/ as bargaining chips. Ah, well, if that isn’t love on his part, I don’t know what is. /sarcasm.

    All quotes from the SparkNotes site, by the way: http://www.sparknotes.com/biography/jefferson/section9.rhtml

    But the contention that he went to France /to/ marry her is flat out wrong. He didn’t go to France because, yay, he could marry Hemings. He went there because job. And the France time? Seems like Hemings wanted her freedom and to stay there without him. I guess that sorta disproves the tru wuv theory, too. She wanted to be free; he found a way to emotionally blackmail her into staying with him, as a slave.

    But, yeah, I can see how some people could misconstrue this as a romance story. *shakes head*

    March 15, 2015
    |Reply
    • Grimlock
      Grimlock

      Sorry for the double post, but this:

      “She apparently loved her so much that…”

      Should be she apparently loved him so much that…

      I notice these things right after I hit post sometimes -_-

      March 15, 2015
      |Reply
  48. nat
    nat

    Wow. I think there has been attacking here, so I’ll focus on the positive. I (to my own embarassment) likely wouldn’t have thought about the owner slave dynamic and the lack of possible consent that carries until you pointed it out, so I would like to take a moment to thank you for getting me to think about the issue, because I believe its important to think about why this sort of thing isnt ok.

    March 16, 2015
    |Reply
  49. This55
    This55

    This is all so disgusting, but Kevin in particular is grotesque. After reading his rants and seeing his Twitter page (heavy with GG and Meninist crap, lol big shock), I was surprised to see so many people here claiming he has fangirls. I ventured over to the STGRBs site (just had to know what they said) and they have a pretty detailed account of him making sock puppet accounts whenever he needs it. So…I’m guessing a lot of the fangirls everyone sees are actually him. So…yeah. The comments here supporting him? Probably him.

    March 17, 2015
    |Reply
  50. Anon
    Anon

    Interesting, as the lady who wrote the Jefferson book is African American herself. Yes, I’m open ears to how an African American can be racist against herself.

    March 18, 2015
    |Reply
    • Lieke
      Lieke

      Yep, everything’s perfectly alright now.

      There’s absolutely nothing problematic about presenting a man (who actually existed) raping a woman he legally owned (who also existed) as a consensual relationship, because the writer is also a POC and everyone knows that a POC can’t do or say anything racist.

      Problem solved!

      March 19, 2015
      |Reply
    • ellid
      ellid

      It’s “internalized self-loathing,” Kevin old sport. You might want to look it up.

      As for your pathetic trolling and complete (and seemingly deliberate) inability to understand why a BDSM book about a master beating and raping his slave might be considered upsetting and bigoted, I need to ask:

      Why are you so upset? And irrational? You’re really too emotional about this. Chill out, m’man, and maybe read some nice pegging porn about Catherine the Great raping her serfs. I’m sure it’ll be exactly to your taste.

      March 19, 2015
      |Reply
  51. ginmar
    ginmar

    Oh, hi, Kevin! Do you really think your white boy ass trolling is going to work?

    March 18, 2015
    |Reply
  52. ginmar
    ginmar

    Yeah, as far as I know, there’s nobody’s word but Weinberg’s that he has Asberger’s. Seeing as how he has left an incredible trail of lies across the internet, you all might very well be getting upset over a non-existent diagnosis. Considering the way he’s admitted both trolling AND lying, I know what I’m betting on.

    March 19, 2015
    |Reply
  53. Kristen G
    Kristen G

    First of all, I love you. Probably because I’m brainwashed. Second, he basically said if someone is not into rape, that’s their choice, but don’t judge other people for it, which is pretty fucked up. Also, he never heard of the term “women of color”? Not actually that surprising. I hope he knows there are more colors of disenfranchised women, other than black.

    For reference

    March 19, 2015
    |Reply
    • Kristen G
      Kristen G

      For reference, I’m a mulatta, and honorary Latina.

      March 19, 2015
      |Reply
    • khan
      khan

      To be fair, some BDSM affectionados are into rape-based roleplay because power. That’s their thing; just trust them to know that rape is bad normally but in roleplay it’s fine as long as it’s consensual and they use safewords or some suitable alternative, the same way you trust other members of the BDSM community to know that battery is normally bad but acceptable during kinky bedroom games.

      If you meant the glorification of actual historical rape, though, then, yes; you’re right.

      Behind you on the WOC thing; it’s a pretty common term.

      January 4, 2016
      |Reply
  54. Victoriana
    Victoriana

    Thank you for all of you’ve done Jenny. Social justice does seem like an exhausting fight sometimes, especially for POC.

    I was participating in a thread on “Troublesome aspects of Gone With the Wind” (the same one started by Anne Rice to discuss Rhett leaving Scarlet-her troublesome aspect of it it seems-but which I and additional voices chimed in to discuss the “troublesome aspect” in it of slavery) recently and feel really exhausted at this point after being cornered, mass down voted (which eventually erases posts) and accused of not caring about other issues because I condemn slavery and dismissive attitudes about slavery on a thread about slavery. I seemed to be the only POC on this thread to whom these issues are not distant, but personal. Why can’t I care about slavery and harmful attitudes that to this day persist of it and contribute to racism? Why does that make me not care about present and other issues and why is it “finger-wagging” from a distant armchair if I do? Among other things, the thread was derailed by someone comparing owning slaves to owning iPods and watching Downton Abbey. When I pointed out those things are not comparable, I was accused of creating straw and and being a hypocrite and not caring about present issues like suicides in China caused by poor working conditions in Apple factories and sex trafficking.

    I pointed out “And I’ll say one more time, for me discussing slavery and condemning it and wrongful attitudes about it isn’t just about sitting in an armchair from a distance and wagging a finger at the past. For me, as a POC, it’s more personal. Social justice matters a great deal to me and it is because I care about how racism impacts people of color today, including me, my friends, family, and people I care about, that I care about cultural attitudes about our past because those attitudes impact today. Maybe to some it’s distant, but be aware that it’s not distant for everyone, for many people it’s very near and impactful.”

    But still I get down voting and more downvoting and I’m just tired and feel crowded out by the hostility as a lone voice and want to retire from this thread at this point even though I enjoyed it before and these issues are important to me.

    And I’m sorry for intruding here with my own issue, but I just really needed a safe place to let this out, so I hope you’ll forgive me since you’re sympathetic to these things. Thanks again.

    (Here’s the Amazon thread: http://www.amazon.com/forum/fiction/ref=cm_cd_et_jump?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1X9OILUVOYVZ7&cdPage=18&cdThread=Tx3MJDWSCJDP7G6#CustomerDiscussionsLPIT)

    April 1, 2015
    |Reply
    • khan
      khan

      That really sucks to hear and I’m sorry you had to deal with that. Even though it was a long time ago… it still sucks. People who think they’re being decent people should at least have the decency to listen when someone says they actuallly have experience with a subject that’s being talked about in the abstract.

      January 5, 2016
      |Reply
  55. Anon123
    Anon123

    Someone should alert universities that what their English classes teach isn’t literary criticism; it’s “author bullying.” I think they’d want to know that the type of thing you do best on your blog isn’t proper use of a critical mind, but rather, despicable harassment.

    Also, I had no idea you were such a big-shot best-selling head-cheese author, trampling over all those poor little indie types. When are you going to start sharing your billions of dollars with the world, Jenny?

    June 10, 2015
    |Reply
  56. Samanta
    Samanta

    First, how can anyone launch a boycott campaign without even knowing the facts. Seriously?! You are making all women look like nutcases and I do take offense in your actions.
    Second, I don’t think it is fair to assume that just because he has power over her it is rape. If you fall in love with your boss and have a relationship, would that be rape? The answer is “no.” Why? Because you want it, that is what “consensual” means.

    July 2, 2015
    |Reply
    • ginmar
      ginmar

      Oh, honey, no. The adults are talking. Stick to your graham crackers and milk.

      July 2, 2015
      |Reply
      • Samanta
        Samanta

        Not worth a response.

        July 2, 2015
        |Reply
        • ginmar
          ginmar

          Sweetie, you obviously came charging over here from some offenderati’s bullshit blog and don’t have a clue. Don’t bitch at me about your own arrogance and ignorance.

          Protip: “not all slaveowners” based on ONE self-congratulatory quote does not provide a sufficient counterweight to Jefferson’s own treatment toward his slaves.

          And any idiot who uses Basement Boy’s idiotic arguments deserves only contempt. If you can’t think for yourself, stick to that crowd.

          July 2, 2015
          |Reply
          • khan
            khan

            What is this a response to?

            January 5, 2016
        • khan
          khan

          Sadly, I have to agree with that.

          January 5, 2016
          |Reply
          • ginmar
            ginmar

            I think some comments were deleted. Beats me. This is nearly a year old.

            January 5, 2016
    • khan
      khan

      First, seriously? Jenny can make all women look like nutcases? She speaks for all women? She’s like the Lorax? Or she has such untold influence over the minds of people that she can determine how they see women?
      Where do you get that kind of power?

      Secondly: This is different. A boss can maybe fire you if you disagree (and get sued for their troubles). Your master is legally allowed to kill you. In the eyes of the law, a slavemaster owns his slaves. With that level of influence, it’s ridiculously hard to make sure of her consent. She could have been afraid for her life. She could have been trying to make things easier for her. She could have been trying to avoid being flogged. That’s the kind of situation where it’s almost never okay, like having sex with a puke-drunk person or your thirteen-year-old student. If Jefferson had cared about her, he’d have freed her first.
      I don’t want to diss Jefferson, since I do still have a lot of esteem for him, but this was likely a case of rape.

      January 5, 2016
      |Reply
  57. Wow, Samanta, I didn’t realize slavery could be a person’s occupation. Tell me, is 2 wks notice acceptable or is it still the traditional lifetime?

    July 2, 2015
    |Reply
  58. Samanta
    Samanta

    I don’t believe you understand the message. I’m just saying that because Jefferson had power over his slaves it does not mean that he had the same abominable attitude as many other slave owners and that there is a possibility that a slave may have had positive feelings towards him. A quote from Jefferson to illustrate my point.
    In a letter to Edward Coles, Monticello, August 25 1814:
    “My opinion has ever been that, until more can be done for them, we should endeavour, with those whom fortune has been thrown on our hands, to feed and clothe them well, protect them from ill usage, require such reasonable labor only at is performed voluntarily by freemen, and be led by no repugnance to abdicate them and our duties to them.” From The Quotable Jefferson by John P. Kaminski 2006.

    July 2, 2015
    |Reply
  59. It’s a lovely quote but she was still a slave. I don’t think Sally or Jefferson could ever forget that and because of that there was an enormous inequity of power. What would you do to keep yourself safe? Would it be because you wanted it or because you couldn’t refuse?

    And just a heads up: To equate your owner with your boss came off as very juvenile so gin’s milk and cookies wasn’t far off my gut reaction to your post. And while I’m thinking about it, why on earth would you make this comparison? No matter how great a guy Hamilton was or wasn’t there is a vast difference between slavery and employment.

    July 2, 2015
    |Reply
    • khan
      khan

      ….*Jefferson?

      January 5, 2016
      |Reply
  60. Samanta
    Samanta

    I agree with your point that the slave may have agreed to it in lieu of safety. And I’m sure that was the case in most situations at the time. Having said that, I don’t believe it makes it correct to assume that it was correct for every single situation. That is my point.
    On the analogy to the boss/employee situation, I was pointing the imbalance of power and how it is generally assumed that every situation is sexual harassment.
    Basically, I’m have a problem with absolutes, black and whites and generic assumptions. Gin’s reply was condescending and therefore disrespectful to my opinions.

    July 2, 2015
    |Reply
    • You should consider that to some of us your comparison was very offensive.

      July 2, 2015
      |Reply
  61. Amy
    Amy

    “I think white people have a social responsibility to call out racism, because we’re the ones who created it”

    Wow. I used to be a fan of yours, and it’s disappointing to see you feeding into this white guilt bullshit. So white people created racism? You’ve never seen any other races with prejudices against each other?

    I have no more of an obligation to call out racism than my Hispanic or African American neighbor. I treat all races with respect, and I’m sick of the insinuation that because my predecessors were cruel and racist, that I am as well. My ancestors came to this country as indentured servants, it’s not like white families havent suffered from hardships as well.

    Pick your battles Jenny.

    January 2, 2016
    |Reply
    • JennyTrout
      JennyTrout

      1. White people aren’t the only people who are prejudiced, but white people are the only people responsible for our current system of institutionalized racism.

      2. If you don’t want to feel guilty about that, I can’t make you, but you’re in no way as oppressed as a person of color just because your ancestors had to pay their way out of debt because that’s the deal they either chose to make or were sentenced to. Please look up “indentured servant” and compare it to “slave” if you’re unsure of what the difference is.

      3. I’ve never once in my life said that white people have never faced hardship. But they’ve never faced hardship BECAUSE of their whiteness. Again, I can’t make you accept this.

      4. I highly doubt you were much of a “fan” if you’re shocked that I’m not a white supremacist.

      January 2, 2016
      |Reply
    • khan
      khan

      Discrimination, not prejudice.

      January 5, 2016
      |Reply
  62. ginmar
    ginmar

    …..and with that dogwhistle of “indentured servants” so very, very much is revealed.

    January 2, 2016
    |Reply
  63. khan
    khan

    So this was a long time ago, and now irrelevant, but
    “Ben Franklin and other presidents”
    wtf?!?!?!?!?!!?

    Also, without getting into any discussions on censorship because I’m kind of ambivalent about what sort of messed-up stuff should be allowed to sell, I’m impressed that you actually went and read what they said about you. That’s gutsy.

    Unfortunately, I’m not brainwashed, but if you can find anyone who is, kudos!

    January 4, 2016
    |Reply
    • khan
      khan

      Oh, and just want to say – I agree with your views on racism.

      January 4, 2016
      |Reply
  64. khan
    khan

    Points
    * “I did my research” says the guy who thinks Ben Franklin was president
    * “actually illegal” No it fucking isn’t. It astounds me that someone can be that ignorant of the way the law works.
    * “merchant” …? I guess it’s not technically incorrect, but it’s weird af.
    * A book being offensive is a perfectly valid reason to attack it. I don’t know why you’d disagree with that.
    * “Don’t like don’t buy” dear god, she has defenders straight out of bad fanfiction reviews…
    And
    * Jenny doesn’t understand BDSM. Oh, of course not. It’s sinful stuff. We’re all god-fearing citizens who don’t want to know anything about it. That’s why we burned those witches.

    January 5, 2016
    |Reply
  65. Paul Mullenax
    Paul Mullenax

    Dear Yeezus, what strange sub – culture have I wandered into? I went deep on #gamergate, and this waste of free speech is where my journey shall end, I guess. The strangest part is: I don’t even play video games ( or read erotica ). But I do support free speech, and I don’t understand how any writer could promote censorship. Maybe this book is racist. Maybe it does contain rape. But it’s just a book. And I don’t understand why the articles author would object, considering she offers unedited rape scenes on her Patreon page. It seems unethical to judge one a peddler of rape smut ,while profiting and promoting rape fantasy content banned by amazon at the same damn time. Although, judging by the description, it sounds like your’e not just selling the fantasy part. Why would anyone want to read about rape and the brutal aftermath / recovery? Oh wait, it doesn’t fucking matter – because of free speech.! And despite the fact that you’re a social justice warrior newb, I will always defend your right to write. And to be read.

    January 15, 2016
    |Reply
    • JennyTrout
      JennyTrout

      There are literally no scenes of rape in the chapters I’ve posted to Patreon. The story is about a rape survivor. And interestingly enough, nothing in the book eroticizing the rape and enslavement of an actual person.

      Where are you people coming from today?

      January 15, 2016
      |Reply
    • Jayce
      Jayce

      Why would anyone want to read about rape and the brutal aftermath / recovery? Oh wait, it doesn’t fucking matter – because of free speech.!

      Because it does fucking matter. It matters to the thousands of rape survivors who wonder if they’ll ever be whole again, ever love again, ever be desirable again, ever DESERVE to be desired again. So screw you for saying it doesn’t fucking matter. That oblivious, ignorant mindset is part of the damn problem rape survivors have in the first place, Mr. Let’s-Push-Everything-Under-The-Rug-And-Never-Speak-Of-It-Again, and as a two-time rape survivor, fuck you.

      On to your “it’s just a book.” No, it’s not. People CITED a fiction book as FACT in attacking Jenny about it, claiming that Jefferson and Hemings were actually married. So it matters, and the fact that it’s fiction means nothing because some idiots will gladly internalize it and spew it forth like it’s common damn knowledge. They took a real woman, who was enslaved until her Master died, whose children from that rape were enslaved by that same man, and somehow just ignore that whole damn thing? And that’s cool because, what? She’s black so white people don’t really have to think about it? I just, I can’t even with you mindless trolls today.

      *Jenny, sorry about the cursing. I know you probably don’t care, but I try not to do it. Hope you’re well.*

      January 15, 2016
      |Reply
  66. Fer
    Fer

    Long time ago I lost 10 minutes of my precious life reading a short story of her. Not even when I read 50 shades (it doesn’t matter that stop when I read the fucking contrac) I feel that my time was waisted in the most disgusting way.
    Even in that “rape fantasy” I could see how unfair was to the woman character and that, in fact, it was just a little bit of what her fantasy really was, because it was what her husband “let happened”. The end was just bullshit trying to justify that also his fantasy wasn’t complete for her overprotection. Really, it didn’t surprise me that she thinks that slavery is D/S. What a sick person

    March 3, 2016
    |Reply
    • Fer
      Fer

      I just notice that it looks like I’m talking about Jen, but no. I’m talking about this Jaid woman.

      March 4, 2016
      |Reply

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